Advice for dealing with 4gate pressure?

Discussion in 'Zerg Discussion' started by Detritus, Oct 29, 2010.

  1. Detritus Lord

    I'm doing really good lately, and think I'll be promoted to Gold soon as it has been placing me in matches vs Golds and I'm winning. I can deal with pretty much any MU, except for when Toss 4gates me.

    Any general advice for dealing with that as Zerg?

    Edit: Finally got the replay up... I had to launch IE to click the "Update" button to publish.

    This shows even a nubish 4gate was able to crush me. I'll post more details in response to Red.
  2. Jbigg Jay Biguos

    PRE-Viewing Replay:
    I assume you have been able to early hatch? Getting ahead of your opponents in economy is the biggest thing. A one base protoss will beat a one base zerg. You really need that second hatchery for the larva. If you can get your expansion before your pool you should have enough time to build your forces, so maybe work on defending a 2 gate rush while you early expand.

    Anyhow, the 4gate is in a great timing window versus a expanding or a teching player. So anything you can do to delay his attack, or to get your expansion earlier so he may miss the window will be good. As for delaying the attack, if you threaten counter-attack with zerglings it is often enough to force a protoss player to spend 30 more seconds at their base. Just make sure he sees the counter attack before he is across the map commited to going for your base. Also very important to use the zerglings to control the map, kill all probes he sends out, the 4gate sucks with no pylon backup and it is slowed way down if the probe has to move out with his army.

    Scout the map for forward pylons, try to have a zergling at the front of your opponents base so you know when an attack is coming. If you see a force that you will not be able to defend against, feel free to throw down spine crawlers.

    I'm not sure if a gold player has good enough macro, but if they go 4 gateway that is literally all they can do. No expansion No upgrades, unless they do something like cut production or supply block themselves, which both make the attack easier to defend. If you KNOW they are 4 gate pushing, devote everything to holding it off and you will be leaps and bounds ahead of your opponent. I have heard of some weird strategies involving trading armies as much as possible so you don't have to build more pylons giving you 100 more minerals every production cycle, but normally that involves a fifth gateway for a zealot.
  3. Detritus Lord

    Against 4gates I've been trying differing expo strategies based on my scouting and appraisal of my opponent. If I think the opponent is savvy I'll try putting my 2nd hatch in-base where it is easier to defend; just to get more larva. In this specific instance I believed my opponent to be nubish as he didn't block-off his ramp, so I put my 2nd hatch in my natural.

    As you can see in the replay my scouting was very effective and I knew early on I was going to be facing a 4gate and started building up army units. I held the towers, and even had lings near his base for an early push warning.

    If I could have survived his attack my macro would have leapt ahead of his, but alas I just can't seem to hold to the pressure. At my level 4gating is now even more common than all the various Toss cheese, which I can deal with because cheesers aren't dynamic, and I think this is the only thing keeping me from advancing in leagues.
  4. Detritus Lord

    Well to answer my own question for anyone else that wanders in here the trick is in the map.

    You HAVE to Fast Expand as a Zerg, but deciding how you do that is really important against Toss.

    If the natural is wide open or there is a backdoor to either the natural or the main, get roaches ASAP. Make sure you have some speedlings out to kill any scouting probes before you make the Roach Warren or you'll have Immortals coming at you in a hurry.

    If the natural has a choke, build lots of spine crawlers. This is where I was failing. 2-3 isn't enough... you want 5-6. Some will back away entirely when they see this, but most 4gaters are so all-in that they will throw themselves against it. Just make sure you have a lot of speedlings to surround them while they whack on the crawlers.

    In both instances the basic VS Toss strategy is Drone up hard and at 30 supply you should have 2 Queens, 2 Lings, and the rest drones. Sac an observer at the back of his base and run your lings at the front. This will let you know if he has 4gates because at 30 supply he'll have built his basic build order. This will also give you enough time to spot other shenanigans like fast Vrays.

    After mastering this I've been doing great. I just now got promoted to Gold! For the last week I've been beating Golds in all match-ups, and it has been placing me vs Plats while I was still silver! I don't do so well against them... but I have won one!

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