I Support this Video

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by El Topo, Oct 6, 2008.

  1. El Topo Lord

    With the US/world economy on the verge of collapse, be it due to the bailout package or continued rapid inflation, we must understand one thing: we are the driving force of our own destruction, and if we wish to continue to live in a "so called" free society we must make some drastic changes to that society and the institutions that run it.

    Having said that, I support this video for a better world:

    I hope u watch it and feel the same way as I have been feeling for awhile now. If u can keep an open mind and watch the video from start to finish, we should have a lot to discuss.

    I expect to have arguments for and against the subjects covered, so make your voices heard. Please don't turn this discussion into a joke or a flame war as thats counter productive, and no real insight will come of it.

    I'll start by saying the video is selective in its content, and is clearly bias to other solutions than its own. However is their any other solution that can be considered better than the one presented?
  2. Verm Lord

    :) Expect the typical non seeker response of " Conspiracy Theory"
  3. dantel Banned

    The Mythology of Zeitgeist

    Zeitgeist Rebuttals

    I find it ironic that this movie's major premise is that you shouldn't believe the bullshit you are fed on TV and through the media (which I completely agree with), while spreading bullshit and lies...through the media.

    If you buy into this crap you're a simpleton, period.
  4. Shagbot Member

    I loved it. Here's another solution, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTflZhQSqfI

    "I know that most men, including those at ease with problems of the greatest complexity, can seldom accept even the simplest and most obvious truth if it be such as would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions which they have delighted in explaining to colleagues, which they have proudly taught to others, and which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabric of their lives."
    -- Leo Tolstoy
  5. Shagbot Member

    I'm curious to know which part of the video is bullshit and lies? Please explain.
  6. Krax Lord

    Thanks Dantel. I might have wasted some time watching that video had I not known it was done by some 9/11 conspiracy wacko.
  7. Valor Buffalo Rancher

    I hope you all understand that people are allowed to hold fast their own beliefs. Regardless of how idiotic they may seem to you, the fact that someone else believes in those ideas gives weight to their credibility and should be respected simply as "Another point of view".

    I think that this SNL video of Sarah Palin and Hillary Clinton though based on comedy truly exemplifies what I am trying to say here.

  8. Shagbot Member

    LOL thx Valor, haven't been rolled in a while. On a more serious note, I'd like the opinion of someone who is too smart to buy into any of this about this video, why was Congress threatened with martial law in America if they didn't pass the bailout:

  9. Krax Lord

    You are wrong.

    There are many people out there that believe that it's OK to kill people that do not have the same religious views that they do. Just because someone believes something does not mean it deserves respect. Some ideas are just plain wrong, and do not deserve any credibility just because someone is gullible enough to buy into it.

    Dantel is showing that he cares by calling people simpletons that belive that stuff. He doesn't want us to fall for it.

    That's my belief anyway. I guess you will have to respect it!

    Shagbot, there is a lot of exaggeration that goes on in politics. Someone just went off the deep end and probably said something like,"If we don't get this bill passed, the economy will collapse and there will be rioting in the streets!" (and subsequent martial law to control it.)
  10. Valor Buffalo Rancher

    I have been listening to this video and have found a few things thus far.

    1) The video is made with obvious bias.

    When making a "documentary" of sorts like this with the intention to educate people, I am often able to discredit many of the arguments due to the lopsidedness of their perspective. Nothing in this world is black and white.

    2) The light shown on debt is entirely negative.

    There are very few financial systems that exist that could possibly support any government. Socialistic, Communistic, Capitalistic are considered the big 3. So, looking at those three systems you will then get to deal with how to best make each of those function.

    Capitalism is founded on the individuals ability to make money and then to spend that money on the goods of other individuals. The extreme of this system allows absolutely no government control of the industries. This leads to monopolies and consolidation of the majority of wealth in that country to the top ranks of society. This is the extreme that the video is mostly covering. What they are turning a blind eye to is the restrictions the government DOES place on american industries.

    Yes, our current economy is predominantly unrestricted capitalism. "Conservatives" tend to believe that the government should not meddle in much of the economy as those who work hard and manage their money will make their way in life while lazy and idiotic people will find themselves poor.

    **This is actually one of the reasons I think our country is in need of a "Liberal" president though I am not sure Obama is that person.

    Most importantly however, Capitalism is founded on the buying and selling of goods, thus the more money there is to buy and sell, the healthier the economy is. The issue with inflation though is when an imbalanced growth occurs. Either the need for more money rises too quickly or the amount of available money rises too quickly. We currently have a problem with the need of money rose too quickly due to the war, we HAD TO HAVE THAT MONEY IMMEDIATELY. So, instead of waiting for the economy to catch up with that need, we just made more money. Now, our need and available money is greater than what our economy can support. That is why luxury items such as plane tickets, nice houses, cars, furniture are all seeing a large downturn of sales.

    You see, the ideal system that provides the greatest amount of potential and freedom to the individual IS the Capitalistic system. But like everything in life, there has to be moderation. With how our political system is established, we have two parties that create a see-saw effect on this. When a conservative republican enters office, they typically deregulate allowing businesses to grow and help to solidify the economic situation for business owners through larger profit margins. When liberal democrats take office, they usually regulate and tax businesses and individuals. When it comes to the poor of the country however, they tend to see more money during liberal terms due to government regulation of minimum wage and other restrictions on businesses.

    Having this back and forth balance tends to work well unless you have a president for 8 years who is very active in changing the economy. I would challenge that presidents should only be allowed a 4 year term then they can go back to other offices.
  11. Valor Buffalo Rancher

    Oh, do not misunderstand what I was saying. I was only saying that everyone is titled to their own belief and we should not go around trying to change that belief.

    Take Al Quaida for example. I did not go over there trying to change their belief, I went over there and killed them because their belief was violent and dangerous to Americans.

    And about the financial bail out bill, due to the war costs, our economy NEEDS government regulation of a great many things, but most importantly the economy needs money in the hands of bankers. The debt has inflated and the banks are no longer able to cover their own debt, without a bailout, banks will fail and individuals will lose everything they have paid for with credit. There needs to be a gradual weaning off of credit, and this bailout is going to give us some more time to accomplish that. Under Bush, it will not happen though so look to the next candidate to begin the task of taking on the government and personal debt.

    This is all about moderation. Slowly transitioning and maintaining balance.
  12. Shagbot Member

    Yeah, you're probably right. I'm sure the fact that Northcom has already begun training our military to deal with civil unrest, and are deploying 4000 troops inside the U.S. means nothing too. Thanks for clearing that up for me, I'm glad there are people smarter then me to help out.

  13. Krax Lord

    You wanted an explanation, and I gave you the most simple one (in my opinion, of course.) Watch more CSPAN and you will get a better idea of how our politicians like to talk.

    Anyway, I am going to go ahead and tell you why troops are being deployed in the US and are being trained for civil unrest. You may not want to read it though. It is far worse than the conspiracy theories that you seem to hold to. You have been warned.

    The government needs to be able to lock down the whole country at a moments notice to be able to counter biological weapons. You may have seen some sci fi show that had some virus wipe out a good portion of the population and wondered if such a thing actually exist. Well it does. The real problem though, is that they are pretty easy to make. Thousands of people each year gain the technical skills to make them, and our knowledge is getting to the point that you won't even need technical skill to kill millions. Some day soon, some guy will be able to cook one up in his garage using a small amount of money.

    The only counter we have is to be able to split the population up and let it burn out. Being rather anti-government myself, I agree that it sucks for the US to have such power; but it is necessary to ensure the survival of the country. If it makes you feel better, you can always vote someone out of office if they abuse this power.
  14. I hate how this video down talks to the viewer, assuming they know nothing, while they "educate" you with fear. sounds a whole lot like Fox news which I bet the creator of this video is against...
  15. Krax Lord

    Against my better judgement, I went ahead and watched the thing. The web sceptic site that Dantel linked does a decent job of going though it, though it goes though a different version of the movie. If you are truly interested in hearing counterpoints, you should read the site and follow the links.

    There is so much wrong with the movie that it would take weeks to go though it all. I'll go ahead and give you one though, that I didn't see covered by the web sceptic site.

    The movie said that we invaded Iraq (the first time) because Saddam was incorruptible. They completely leave out that he invaded another country and threatened the whole region. They also leave out that he was part of the biggest corruption scandal in world history, the oil for food program.
  16. Shagbot Member

    "On Wednesday July 25, 1990, the U.S. Ambassador in Iraq, April Glaspie, asked the Iraqi high command to explain the military preparations in progress, including the massing of Iraqi troops near the border. The American ambassador declared to her Iraqi interlocutor that Washington, “inspired by the friendship and not by confrontation, does not have an opinion” on the disagreement which opposes Kuwait to Iraq, stating "we have no opinion on the Arab-Arab conflicts". She also let Saddam Hussein know that the U.S. did not intend "to start an economic war against Iraq". These statements may have misled Saddam into believing he had received a diplomatic green light from the United States to invade Kuwait (New York Times, September 23, 1990)."

    I'm not defending Saddam or his actions, but we did give him the green light to invade Kuwait. Kuwait was slant-drilling into Iraqi oil fields, and the two countries were in a dispute over a $40 billion loan Kuwait had given to Iraq to fight Iran. Turns out we were lied into that war as well:

    Wars are ALWAYS fought for land and resources, period (not to "bring democracy" to foriegn nations). Even most of the sheep I know irl understand that.
  17. Valor Buffalo Rancher


    Bud, there are a million different reasons we go to war. Picking one to single out as "The reason we went to war" is ludicrous. To say that we were the cause of the war is also a little short sighted. Look into some of the history of Saddam's rise to power all the way up to the first Iraq war and you will read many reasons to remove him from power.

    Our greatest fault during that war was to leave him in power as he became an antagonist in the region... not that there was any lack of that already.
  18. Shagbot Member

    “ "Statesmen will invent cheap lies, putting blame upon the nation that is attacked, and every man will be glad of those conscience-soothing falsities, and will diligently study them, and refuse to examine any refutations of them; and thus he will by and by convince himself that the war is just, and will thank God for the better sleep he enjoys after this process of grotesque self-deception". - Mark Twain ”

    I respectfully disagree.
  19. Valor, I dont think YOU get it, lol. Its far easier to blame a conspiracy theory and say the government is evil and full of lies than to take responsibility as nation's people and make the changes that are needed to better the world. Its a lazy man's way out.
  20. Krax Lord

    I have this little rule I like to follow when dealing with conspiracies. Don't explain a situation occurring because of conspiracy that can just as easily be explained by incompetence. Did we trick Saddam into invading another country, or was the state department just to incompetent to defuse the situation? Only the best and brightest get ambassador appointments right? Anyway, I clearly am not going to convince you on this matter, Shagbot, so I'll switch to another one.

    What do those people working on the Venus project plan to do with pedophiles? They won't have any jails to lock them up in. They won't have a court system to convict them with. They won't have any cops to arrest them. They won't even have any laws for them to be arrested for. I guess they just run around molesting as they please.

    The movie did say something about religion and society repressing natural human desire (or something like that, don't make me watch it again to get the exact quote.) I hope they didn't mean pedophilia. Maybe they just think money is the cause, like they seemed to think money was the cause of all crime.

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