Need a counter to Ravens

Discussion in 'Zerg Discussion' started by Detritus, Sep 30, 2010.

  1. Detritus Lord

    I've got some pretty solid fundamentals in my game now so I can counter a lot of different scenarios. This morning I got stumped with Ravens. He basically fast Ravened me and I could never figure out a counter. I stuck in the game long after I lost, just to try different techniques. Those auto-turrets fucked my shit up, especially in the early game when my units had no armor. My poor little roaches just fell apart.

    I've been trying to look online for suggested counters but all I see mentioned is Hydralisk... but I had tried that before the roaches! Those damned turrets have too much health for Hyrdas to go toe-to-toe with them; zerglings and roaches die too fast to tank for them.

    Any advice would be appreciated.
     
  2. Cedwyn Banned

    Use the Queen's EMP ability.
     
  3. Jbigg Jay Biguos

    I made a really long post then deleted it all.....

    Main points
    ___________

    1) Raven's are probably not the reason you lost. You were probably outplayed in some other facet of the game, or you didn't do something right.

    2)Make sure to scout, zerg is hard to determine if you should make drones or attacking units, based on what you see you know how to spend your larva. if you make the wrong one you will pry die, but always favor making drones and as you lose slightly making less drones. You always want to have just enough units to deal with your enemies force. Unless your doing some kind of all in push, (ie a roach push against an early expanding player)

    3)Since hydras suck against all terran mech, if you are worried about banshee/raven favor a spire as your midgame. Infester play and roach movement plays would be some other options.

    Good luck.
     
  4. zeta Lord

    Don't let it get to that point. Ravens are not very quick compared to speedlings and roaches. He invested so much into those ravens that you could have rushed him early on and probably won if you macro'd properly. Can you post the replay?
     
  5. Jbigg Jay Biguos

    The replay would help greatly, I would imagine though that the guy didnt just rush ravens... really rush ravens?.. He probably lost the game or begun to lose the game at some other point and ravens are want finished him off.
     
  6. Detritus Lord

    It was a raven rush. That was the first I saw of him besides marines pecking at my overlord scout. I didn't save the replay, I'll keep that in mind for any future specific questions.

    I'm in a downward spiral now that I've gotten into silver. At first it was matching me against Golds and I was doing alright... about 50/50 ... then the golds got harder, throwing lots of different tactics I wasn't prepared for. I kept rethinking and retweaking my opening build orders but I went something like 3 wins for 10 games yesterday.

    Today I'm on a 7 gaming losing streak with my only win being a practice custom to warm-up and some of those losses were against silvers I know I should have beaten! I'm completely second guessing everything and I know I'm playing way too defensively and that isn't working at all. I am seriously depressed now as I was doing so good before. My win/loss was nearly 60%. It is 0% today!

    I'm stumped, I don't know wtf to do different as everything I keep trying keeps getting fucked by something else. I need some new starting build orders for all the races. I can't beat terran MMM anymore, I can't beat Zealot rushes anymore, I can't beat Zerg anything anymore and I was fucking dominating in all of these scenarios 2 days ago. I need something that can get me off D and start pushing.

    Edit: Gonna try Red's 16 Speedlings Build for something different.
     
  7. Hades Lord of the Dead

    Ravens suck.

    If you play Zerg you should be hitting the terran early, keep them on the defense, get your expansions, and keep the pressure on to grind them down.

    If you let a terran tech up, that is your first and most fundamental mistake.
     
  8. Detritus Lord

    What should I be doing to hit early? Baneling busts only go so far and a couple of Marauders with concussive neutralize Roaches.

    The strategy that got me out of bronze was getting to mutas as fast as possible, with an expo at 20 for gas to support them. This stopped working pretty quickly as soon as I started facing Gold though as they push in on me in a hurry.

    I tried throwing in counters before the mutas. I'd build up 5 roaches to deal with Zealots or Reapers, or 5 Hydras to deal with potential air assaults from Terrans... then move into my Muta play. But this slows down my process so I can't push out to prevent his expo.
     
  9. Jbigg Jay Biguos

    I actually stopped doing that 16 speedling build... I get my expansion much earlier now its almost a necessity if you want to compete with the other races.

    TheFruitDealer(formerly known as Cool) Is currently the best zerg in the world. If he wins on saturday he will be considered the best current player out of all players, not to mention be $85,000 dollars richer.

    He says that he feels he needs to open hatchery BEFORE a spawning pool to be competitive.. thats how important it is for zerg to expand early.

    Personally I have been using Dimaga's(considered to be one of the best non Koreans) opening build, 14gas 14 pool 15 overlord Get zling speed right when spawning pool finishes, spawn a queen and one zergling which will bring you to 18/18. Now I expand. and zergling or drones are dependant on what i scout. Dimaga is famous for only building the roach warren if he feels he will need it, ie he doesn't kill off a portion of the other players army..

    Anyhow if you are not going to tech up to lair very quickly take 2 or 3 drones out of gas after speed.

    Another tip, after your first queen finishes you should spawn larva or make a creep tumor and begin sending that queen to your expansion. Immediately make your second queen. A lot of zergs are building 2 queens per base now so they can deal with a fast banshee or a fast void ray.
     
  10. Detritus Lord

    I was doing that for a while in the end of my stint in bronze, but the golds punished me for not having my spawning pool up. I really liked this set up because I felt like once I got my macro up I had everything I needed. I think I got the idea from watching a bunch of FruitDealer games, but it is hard to keep track of all the various games I've been watching... it doesn't help that they almost all conflict on views towards the effectiveness of roaches.

    I actually won 2 games in a row with the 16 Speedlings on my lunch break, but I didn't like the feel of the late expo... it felt like I was scrambling with econ when I should have been harassing. I'll give your take on Dimaga's build a shot, it sounds like a good compromise between 16 Speedlings and Fruitseller's.

    I like this a lot. I'm seeing a lot of early void rays, plus I like having the extra queens for spreading creep too.

    One area I know I'm really lacking is early game harasses. Do you have any replays that show how you typically harass the various races?
     
  11. Hades Lord of the Dead

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