Wikileaks

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Mephiston, Dec 8, 2010.

  1. Meh, won't affect change. As Gordon Gecko said, "Greed is Good."
     
  2. Koribundar Inactive Chapter Member

    Well of course nuke info (etc) = don't talk about.

    I'm talking about things like Cheney's 'secret' talks with big oil, shit like that.

    Or, ('putting on my tinfoil hat'), let's open up area 51, or, show me the space ship in fort knox. I want access to Lincoln's bedroom. Where is the WhiteHouse keystone? huh? Why was BinLadens family flown out of Washington when all planes were grounded? When was the tracking chip implanted into Gauns brain?

    WE NEED TO KNOW!!!!!
     
  3. I say let it all out. Why? Because step one of recovery is admitting you have a problem... In this case admitting how absolutely fucked up the world is and most likely will be for the remainder of our lives ;). I wouldn't mind dying so that humanity doesn't kill itself off and I expect the same of everybody else. Every last one of us will die one day, so why the fuck not give our grandchildrens' grandchildren the utopia we all have dreamt about. Don't get me wrong... We will all probably suffer for allowing corruption to fester for so long, but shit... it is our fault.

    Knowledge is power and any censorship/restriction on knowledge is in the long run just going to fuck us over.

    Deep son, deep. :cool:
     
  4. Waratah Member

    I favor this approach.

    Firstly because i love watching people who play politics choke on their own words.
    secondly because trying to stop the leeks and/or censor them would cost such extravagant amounts of tax dollars.
     
  5. Dozel Member

    i just think its sad so many back door/room deals go on, everyone is watching dancing with the stars, american idol, not that theres anything wrong with that, but people tend to model their lives after foriegn influences aka media/government/celebrities/etc

    yes Meph, even america still has crazies left lurking, look at the KKK for example, the whole division and racism are trivial things, when you begin to realize we are all one, manipulation and negativity are so accepted its funny, just like a mafia figure, you get paid fiat currency to protect another snake who doesn't really have your best interest in mind, the pyramid scheme has weak points and can crumble after the lower blocks get removed

    the frequency of love i feel is the only saving grace of the future, people have to want it for themselves

    even here in canada i only know a few like minded people, more over the internet, try to speak people the truth and they don't really respond well, because it means they have to change and people really like to coast throughout life

    really entertaining about the human psyche, how did George Carlin say it, i wear my glasses sit back and watch the freak show

    two songs if anyone wants to check out.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5piJlx3OwYw
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3dRgpHqlfM

    also Meph, hope the love life is going all good for you <3
     
  6. Huh?

    Yeah well things will have to get a lot worse before you see populations rising up in revolt. Joe Average may not be able to own that mansion or that sports car, he might be sinking into debt because of an ill-advised mortgage, but as long as he can afford fatty salty calorie dense foods, beer, internet porn, and meaningless objects like TV's and Massaging showerheads he'll be content with the modern equivalent of Rome's bread and circuses.

    Things suck for a lot of people these days, but as much as people bitch about corruption in government and back room deals they don't have to worry about secret police kicking in doors, roving drug gangs taking over towns and assassinating politicians, starvation, disease, etcetera. So, as the animals working as lamps, dishwashers, and vaccuums in the Flintstones used to say "Eh, it's a livin'.".

    That, and in a country so full of divisive issues (Taxes, religious everything, race relations, immigration, politics, etcetera) it would take something BIG to get those 'bottom blocks' of that pyramid to unite. I've yet to see any gloom and doom prediction that has me convinced that one day abortion doctors and clinic bombers, peaceniks and militia folks, racial militants, religious zealots, et al will all march hand-in-hand on the White House and demand change.

    All I see are a lot of arm chair activists whining about 'issue X' without actually doing something about it. The people bitching about all these problems are content to sit where they are and bitch, without making any actual sacrifice. The guy I was talking to who originally led me to start this thread is a prime example of this.

    Imo, its pretty lazy to whine about the poor and homeless not receiving enough assistence while you're too busy (pursuing your own hobbies) and too poor (from the cost of pursuing your own hobbies) to donate either time or money to the cause you love to trumpet. Anyone who works a 40 hour a week job who claims to be too poor or too busy is being dishonest. And this applies to pretty much any other issue anyone with too much time and not enough motivation can come up with.

    You're right, Dozel. Things do rely upon those bottom blocks. "If everyone did X then Y would happen". If everyone donated $5 a paycheck, or a couple hours on the weekend, to a local charity or cause of their choosing it would affect major change.

    But hey, all that requires sacrifice in one form or another. And why make any sort of sacrifice when it's easier to cheerlead the cause from the comfort of your own home?

    For all of [Insert Armchair Activist Here]'s idealism and all of my cynicism, from where I stand I do more to help with 'social issue X' than their endless blather ever will. Why? Because I actually donate money to causes I support and I've donated time too. All the Facebook posts, Tweeting, and DDOS attacks will never amount to anything in comparison with what a few dollars and a pair of boots on the ground will.

    If people want their free speech, their government transparency, their gay marriage, their universal healthcare, better public education, whatever, they have to be willing to do more than sit around and whine about it.

    That applies to this Wikileaks thing, too. It takes less effort to support a highly publicised and controversial website now than it would have to protest and march and do whatever it took to prevent and/or root out the corruption that grew and festered within our government for the last decade plus. Instead, most of us just spent that time whining at the watercooler about the laughable 'Free Speech Zones' protestors were corraled into, the No-Bid Contract affairs, and every other blatant perversion of our government.... and waited for someone else to expend that effort for us.

    My prediction for this whole ordeal? Assange will get convicted on Rape charges, and the masses will whine. The U.S. Govt (and possibly others) will take steps to prevent this from ever happening again, and the masses will whine. And nothing will happen until the next guy decides to stick his neck out and play hero. Wash, rinse, repeat.

    As for my hopes? I hope that Assange's second-in-command who split from Wikileaks, and is setting up his own version of it, will be more responsible with information he receives and a little wiser about where he shoves his cock in his off hours.

    And on that note, I do believe I'd derailed my thread.

    P.S. Dozel, no I'm currently single. I'm in FWB territory for the time being.
     
  7. Verm Lord

    FWB = Fat White Bitch ?
     
  8. Friends with Benefits. :p

    I think the politically correct term for fat white girls is 'moped'. See, they're both fun to ride till your friends see you on one.
     
  9. thorizdin Administrator

  10. For the TL;DR Crowd: Politicians are blowing Wikileaks out of proportion. Why? Because they, a long with most mega corporations, are populated by people with IQ's 20 points lower than your typical tech start up. The solution is for nerds to start paying attention to politics before the stupid people ruin things for them.

    Quite an opinion piece, Thor. ;p
     
  11. thorizdin Administrator

    Here's another from Ron Paul:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/12/10/ron-paul-wikileaks-defense_n_795014.html

    The surprising part for me is that I personally agree with much of what he has to say.

    This part especially:

     
  12. thorizdin Administrator

    Sadly a significant percentage of politicians are fairly dense and an even larger percentage (majority IMO) are extremely ignorant. I invite anyone who disagrees to take 4 days (picked at random is best) during a state level legislative session and just observe state representatives and senators. Its really funny and sad at the same time that bureaucrats get the bad name but they are the only functional part of government and in my experience are both more informed and more dedicated than the vast majority of elected officials.
     
  13. Who needs to be informed when you have polls and constuencies tellling you which way to go, and assistants telling you how to get there? :p

    Your impression isn't too surprising when you take the people putting them into power into account.

    I personally witnessed 25 of the last 50 or so years of Detroits ignorant and corrupt getting voted in and then defended by the very same people they were robbing blind.

    I'm paraphrasing here, but didn't Hobbes' say that Democracy can't fail the people? That its the people who fail Democracy?
     
  14. Anwedie Lord

    When I did work in Harrisburg, I got to visit the Capitol building while the state legislature was in-session. It made me long for the videos of the Korean parliament with people punching, kicking and beating each other with canes.

    This country needs to get a term limit amendment added to the constitution. It's clear it was intended by the original actions of the framers themselves, that this be a citizen government. FDR took this for a ride and luckily died in office(during 4th term)(or he could have been in office longer than some dictators). Politicians on both sides live in Washington so long they can't even name their local sports teams anymore and run this country like the Roman empire. When people are around long enough, they find the loopholes and are more susceptible to cronyism, doing what's best for themselves and not what's good for the nation.

    The other amendment that needs to be added is a balanced budget. While studying mating habits of gay penguins might be a laudible goal to Gaunsaku, it has to be balanced against the whole. Earmarking is just lawmakers bribing each other for each others votes. If your state is going bankrupt(like California) that seems like your problem. Why should fiscally safe states bail their ass out when they're building 10 million dollar trout ladders and providing free Methadone clinics for repeat drug users? I hear they're letting people out of jail now because they're too full, how about lowering the bar for capital punishment? Rape, murder(intended or not..DUI, stoned etc not pure accidents like opening a door into a ladder and guy falling to his death), child assaults of any kind..should all just be put to death. All drug and alcohol use should be legalized, as well as prositution(so much money is wasting on this shit every year). A lot of things should be legal in your own private residency up until the point it impacts someone else's rights(like you smoked a whole bong then went driving and killed someone, you forfeit your life). People argue that innocent people sometimes are put to death, which they are, however if it makes anyone feel better I'll throw the switch on all these people I'm probably going to hell anyways.
     
  15. To be fair, California and other states (think texas, forget who else) actually get some of their tax money taken and redistributed to help subsidize the infrastructure costs of some of those red flyover states that love to vote against socialist anything. Ironic, really.

    Cali would still be fucked, tho. I forget how their state legislature works but don't they need like a 2/3rd or unanimous agreement to raise taxes and carry out certain other critical changes? Its hemorraging money but people fight the tax increases tooth and nail.

    Same 'cake and eat it too' problems everyone seems to have these days.
     
  16. Koribundar Inactive Chapter Member

    This.
     
  17. I'd be ecstatic if hell froze over and congress decided to stop voting themselves pay raises like every year.

    Who the hell fucked up that rule when they were building our government?
     
  18. Detritus Lord

    Man when did LotD become so liberal?

    Assange is an ass, but all this shit stacking up against him and Fox News having tables full of pundits calling for him to be assassinated is making me feel really bad for him. The only thing I hate more than self-important assholes is people making me feel sympathetic to self-important assholes.

    Wikileaks as an idea is great, but he's been using it as a tool for personal empowerment and relevance. If Wikileaks was doing what they say they're doing they would release the leaks the minute they verify them. Not hold them out as bargaining chips and slowly releasing teasers here and there. In fact the idea of Wikileaks is fucking fantastic, man I wish we had something that really upheld the core values they claim.

    As members of democracies it is our duty to take an interest in the affairs of those representing us. This isn't about our right to speech, this is about our responsibility to inform ourselves. The notion that our military or our diplomats should be given autonomy to work on our behalf in secrecy is ludicrous and counter to the demands of democracy. We run the military. We run the diplomats. We can't put our heads in the sand and let them do the terrible things we can't, won't or shouldn't. If we can't, won't or shouldn't do something we have no business doing it with proxies either and we further degrade ourselves and democracy by insisting on ignorance of these terrible deeds.
     
  19. Agree with the first two thirds, take issue with the third. I think that there are some things that should be kept under wraps for the safety of certain concerned parties. Yes that opens itself to abuse, we've seen that for decades, but thats where groups like WikiLeaks come in.

    Unfortunately, as you said, WikiLeaks seems to be run more based off of Assange's personal motives (currently dickwaving contest with the west), and less off of its actual mission statement. His second, who recently split with him to start a different leak database, implied in a recent interview that this thing with Assange VS The West has got Assange ignoring leaked info from other sources in favor of releasing more CableGate (or whatever the fuck they call it now) files.

    And for the record I'm not a liberal. Not a conservative either.
     

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