Wikileaks

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Mephiston, Dec 8, 2010.

  1. thorizdin Administrator

  2. Dozel Member

    yeah there is a difference between FWB and BBW. Big Beautiful Woman.

    lol unrelated.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanky_code

    whats the hanky code to represent, looking for alien tentacle sex?
     
  3. Gaunsaku Chill Dude

    LotD is not liberal. If the guild had to take a political stance, that stance would be "Kill Them Bitches." Hell, it's part of the whole "Killing You Dead Since 1995" pseudo-motto we have going on.

    For the record, I don't consider myself liberal, democrat, republican, conservative, orthodox, reform, whatever. I'm an american and I'm jewish and I enjoy a lot of eastern philosophy. Some who feel the need to lump people together (which I do at times) would call me a liberal democrat, but I do like some republican ideas and am conservative in some areas. But this arbitrary labeling of shit, I feel, is part of the problem these days. It's like labeling everyone as "gamers" or all MMO's as "grindy;" the world is relative and instead of focusing on specifics we choose to throw everything into a giant fucking cloud. Let me explain:

    Eastern philosophy does this and really fucks with people, buddhism especially. At the very base you have four noble truths and an eightfold path. But that's not enough. When Sid gave the flower sermon, he held up the flower and 99.9% of attendents were like "huh?" So Sid had to talk for awhile and explain some shit. The flower, in that case, was a symbol for a fuckton of other shit. Everything becomes a symbol, so when you read "sun" or "moon" or see a circle in a text, you are supposed to recall 6 other volumes of information. In simpler terms, when you're young you see an awesome tree and think "Damn that tree is awesome", then you get older and understand all that's involved in making the tree awesome- the nature of the leaves, photosynthesis, the roots, the location near a natural water source, etc, and finally you get back to that tree being awesome..... but with a fuckton of other knowledge about it. Because people get stuck on the first step or the middle step, it becomes impossible to get to the last step which is where one has a much much more complete perspective of X and X's relationship with the world.

    What these generalizations and super quick reactionary news cycle does is ignore the middle and, thus, last step of that process. People don't care for anything more than the superficial which is not only retarded, but also unpatriotic (in my opinion). When you look at the $1 ill and see the pyramid and the tetraktys you realize that American is deeply rooted in knowledge and balance. Kneejerk reactions are not good at all. That's what makes this whole wikileaks thing such bullshit.

    See previous paragraph about retarded kneejerk stupidity :)

    Wikileaks is great idea.... but the pattern should not be whistleblowing everything. The last thing we want is for everyone with a clearance to put documents up on a website for the public to see. That is dangerous, no matter how much folks might say otherwise. I'm very very very much in support of certain levels of transparency, but very very very much against other kinds of transparency. I don't know all the reasons for keeping chips close to their chest (wikileaks that is); maybe it's political, maybe it's to save their lives if need be. All I know is they did give (in some cases) the government some chances to redact and control the flow of the info. The govt took a pass.

    Not like it would have mattered because even the govt can't keep their redactions straight. But that's a different story.

    Right to inform ourselves, yes. Right to know every detail of every military movement, political discussion, etc.... absolutely not. Spycraft is real and dangerous. Sure, more transparency is good but we cannot be as open as I think you're suggesting. To do so would be a very bad move from a defense standpoint. It's why I don't tell everyone I meet where I live or what my phone number is, but also why I freely give out my penis length.

    Remember - we do NOT live in a pure democracy. We live is a republic state where we give elected officials power to do things in our best interests.... theoretically. Because the people do not govern individually, we do not have complete transparency. It becomes that much more important for us to be informed and AWARE like I said in the beginning of this post. We have to be like spies, looking at the big picture to get a sense of WTF is going on. Anyone who doesn't do this and instead looks at FOX news or CNN or whatever for one perspective of a story misses the whole message. It's not just a right, it's a necessity.
     
  4. I like the story about the prince and the wise man who come across a lone tree in a field, the only one to not have been cut down for some purpose, who decide to find out 'just what is it that makes this tree special enough to preserve?'. They try its wood for arrow making, cooking fires, and other things. And in the end it turns out that the tree was spared because it was useless.

    /derail
     
  5. thorizdin Administrator

    I would hold the counter position and I have held a secret & top secret clearance. Anything that is so heinous that it causes people to disregard their oaths is problematic. However I do believe that anyone who chooses to violate their oaths should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. Its the job of journalists to expose data. Its worth noting that nothing Wikileaks has exposed to date is remotely in the category of data like troop movement or where we have X secret facility. Even if they had revealed that type of data I have to ask which is worse someone getting "dangerous" data secretly and our because they keep their knowledge secret our government doesn't know the data has been obtained or "dangerous" data that is released to everyone?
     
  6. Supposedly they have more than these petty bullshit diplomatic cables thanks to PFC Manning. They've only released a small fraction of the documents so far. Also, Assange's lawyer has claimed to have a 1.4gig encrypted file which will have its key released to anyone interested if anything happens to him. Supposedly this is damning information for the US Govt.

    I would think they would've found the leak eventually, its just that Wikileaks proclamation of "LOOKIE HERE" encouraged them to hunt it down that much sooner.

    Sadly, I don't have Top Secret Clearance, I've just got an ID that grants me access to certain restricted facilities. I'm not cool. :(
     
  7. Anwedie Lord

    If PFC. Manning was caught red-handed, why is he even alive yet? He should be executed by firing squad or hung expeditiously. Keeping people like this alive is the same problem that we face in our prison system. Why shouldn't gangbangers feel obliged to rape/pillage/murder? It's not like anything bad's going to happen to them, they'll just sit in prison for 15 years(7 with good behaviour..good behaviour for a murder lol..), pump weights, watch TV and eat 3 square meals a day(more than I eat and I'm free) before they head out to rape/pillage/murder some more. Eventually like a video game they run out of lives and have to spend the rest of their life in prison. Plus you don't have to work, don't pay taxes and can still vote. Why wouldn't any homeless guy just bash some guys skull in for that kind of life?

    Even if found guilty he'll just spend the next few years in the stockades because we've just gone soft as a country. That's one area I applaud some Arabian courts on. If found guilty, punishment is a deterrent for future crimes..ranging from stealing, you lose your hand(harder to steal then) to death for other crimes(and that for sure ensures no repeat offenders).
     
  8. 1. It's called 'due process'.

    2. Harsh punishments don't make for lower crime rates. Three problems we have with our current system are sending people to jail for years over stupid shit (Like pot), lack of a proper system of rehabilitation (Depending upon which prison system you're stuck in you're looking at anything from slave labor to being indoctrinated in the art of using violence to get your way), and a lack of opportunities upon release. It doesn't matter what you've done to land that felony conviction, you're pretty much branded for life. People who have even less opportunities upon leaving the system than they did upon entering it are that much more likely to resort to crime to feed and clothe themselves.

    You want to fix the American Criminal Justice system? Kill privatized prisons and address the issues that encourage recidivism.
     
  9. Anwedie Lord

    Sure they do, by the same person. Show me a guy who's been executed that's committed another crime :p
     
  10. Unless you're going to execute every offender regardless of crime that doesn't solve the problem.

    If you are suggesting we execute anyone found guilty of crime, regardless of circumstances, you're either trolling, ignorant, or sick.

    That said, you might get your wish. I think they can still execute under treason laws can't they? Cross your fingers and you might get some leaked snuff porn of the PFC Manning execution.
     
  11. Gaunsaku Chill Dude

    Is that counter to what I said? I agree with most all of it except the job of journalists to "expose" data. I'd rather say the job of journalists is to transmit data to the masses. Slight variation between expose (as if it was hidden) and transmit (relaying) :)

    Now regarding Anwedie's gung ho-ness, I agree with him to some extent in that the penal system can be a giant waste of money, especially when folks need to be thrown in solitary confinement for the rest of their lives without any chance of parole or ever having human contact again. Such folks really are a waste. Gang bangers, druggies, etc, many abuse the system and don't mind doing 2 years in a 5 years sentence. Big whoop. But through due process and through the very foundation of this awesome- if not a bit wierd- country, all men are equal and are provided the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. We could change that, but death is absolutely horrible and I believe everyone should be given a number of chances for change. Just killing people brings down the iron gauntlet of the government and that is really not what this country needs.
     
  12. Detritus Lord

    My comment about LotD being liberal was a joke. You guys nearly kicked me out 6 years ago for this:

    [​IMG]

    I think you and I could have some fascinating conversations Gaun, having myself studied Eastern philosophy as well as Jewish mysticism. However I am in agreement with the fundamental fallacy of communication. Not only do you have a much richer appreciation for the tree's awesome, you have an entirely different idea in mind when using the word "tree". My idea of "rainy day" is wildly different from many, having grown up in an area where rain is scarce. When you extrapolate these complexities in simple words to entire sentences the whole thing falls apart. Alas language will fail us entirely, so we'll need an alternative if we are to ever converse meaningfully.

    I'll let you know if I make any headway on my end. Keep in touch!
     
  13. Gaunsaku Chill Dude

    I'm always down for fun conversations. These days give me a drink and a table of people talking philosophy and it's a damn good night :D

    What you say there is precisely the problem and where all the ninja shit I study comes into play. When engaging in a discussion, be it with a friend, family, co-worker, boss, whomever, you need to take into account more than just the words because the words, alone, are meaningless. You need to focus on intent and the whole surrounding environment to get the meaning. Media will often times ignore context, though, because context takes time and time is money and money is jobs. I blame our current capitalist setup for the media's failure to respond properly to wikileaks and many other issues. Like I said, it would take a really strong character to push back and change things. I really think most of America would appreciate that, just like most of American apparently thinks the Obama tax deal is a good thing (contrary to all the bitching emphasis news media has thrown at the issue which makes it seem like it's horrible). Most of America would appreciate it and I think in 50-100 years, most of America will have a much more open, tolerant, and aware mentality that this current generation of old fat fuckhead politicians lack.

    So remember, vote Gaun in 2016 and I'll start to set some shit straight. I'll even hire Hades onto my executive staff as Chief of Pie Charts ;)
     
  14. Dozel Member

    honestly i better get moving to the USA now, so i can be eligible to vote for you.

    Vote for Ninja 2016.

    but in reality would read as

    Vote for 2016.

    because Ninjas are unseen.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtR2m20C2YM

    make sure to hold a parade for your inaugural speech
     
  15. El Topo Lord

    I thought Thor was the Chief of Pie Charts? :) I've never seen Hades post a pie chart unless that's his main contribution to the Elder boards.

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  16. Bail doesn't mean he's off the hook. It just means he's not gonna sit in jail until they decide whether or not to extradite him. They took his passport and stuck him under house arrest with a curfew so he ain't going anywhere unless he wants to be a fugitive.
     
  17. Detritus Lord

    Ahh yea I'm the same way... only replace ninja with hallucinogens. I'll send ya a PM.
     
  18. Gaunsaku Chill Dude

    I replied to your PM. Just remember not to post those pictures because it'll make all the other guys here jealous.
     
  19. Anwedie Lord

    Since this is kind of along the same lines, the government telling us that they help the poor is all bullshit. Anytime anyone from the government talks it's more than likely a lie save few constitutionalist politicians. Today's government, both R and D, is in it for one thing and one thing only: to grow itself into a larger oligarchy and help the rich get richer(ie them).

    Take for example today, I shorted 1000 shares of Mastercard at market open at 250.22 solely on news pertaining to the new debit reduction fees coming out of the Frank-Dodd bill at 2PM(this was a % reduction on fees banks can charge customers for use of debit cards). The reduction number released was 80% of current fees(way north of what anyone thought), sending Mastercard, Visa and others plummeting. On the outside this bill looks like a nobel gesture by our good buddies the politicians, to stop the evil banks from feeing us to death! However all this did was create a money-making frenzy for the rich. I bought back the shares at around 3PM for 222.9(so I didn't get caught being greedy). That netted a substancial amount of money for 1 day, however think of how the super rich did(using their insider lobbyist connections on helping shape the Frank-Dodd bill they kinda knew what was in it). Politicians coming up with laws and making statements is no more insider trading and market manipulation than what Madoff did with his multi-billion dollar Ponzi scheme. Does anyone think its a coincidence that all these political staffers made like 50%+ on their stock portfolios this year? And half of them don't even pay taxes..

    Without a real news organization around anymore, of which Fox comes the closest in my opinion even though 1/2 of its programs are of the conservative talkshow format, having a Wikileaks is the only thing that is going to keep the government somewhat honest. Make no mistake about it, if the President and/or US Congress(or any number of regulatory agencies) wanted to they could utterly destroy our economy sending unemployment into the 50%+ range and it wouldn't bother them or the corporations one bit, afterall they're all rich already(and we know they don't listen to the voters). As for the rest of us, well starvation will lower the unemployment rate I guess.. /rant off
     
  20. More words of wisdom from Gordon Gecko! :D

    I dunno, maybe all the college courses involving ethics, history, and philosophy warped my brain, or maybe I'm just getting pragmatic now that I'm days away from the ripe old age of 29.. but despite all the shit thats wrong with government and all the deliberately evil and corrupt actions performed in the name of it, I just can't see every politician and bureaucrat as being out to get me.

    Sure there are misguided ones, and there are corrupt ones, but I think most of those working in the system have considerably more altruistic goals than "keepin the man down."

    I come across a lot of people who are anti government these days who think the key to everyone's happiness works a long the lines of the underpants gnomes business plans, that is:

    1. Smash the State
    2. ?????
    3. Profit!

    That is an idea that is ignorant of why bureaucracies came to be, of how they have a habit of filling any organizational power vaccuums (i.e. a non-state actor eventually becomes a state actor or is replaced by one), and why it is impossible to enjoy the creature comforts of modern civilization without them blessing us with levels of organization beyond that of our immediate tribe.

    Without that dreaded B word we'd all be scratching a subsistance living out of the mud and engaging in internecine tribal warfare for fun and the occassional kidnapped daughter or goat.

    Yeah Anwedie, you should take political rhetoric with a grain of salt. But the state, and those acting in it's name, do not exist solely to exploit you as that isn't in its best interest in the long-run.

    You're far better off working within the system, with what little power you have, to vote and carry out whatever actions you can to influence that government in a way that will benefit you and everyone else. Miracles don't happen overnight, but it has better odds of achieving something positive, however small, than taking your toys home and refusing to play ever will.

    Granted, there are a lot of idiots out there who are easily fooled into voting for the wrong things, but thats the downside of Universal Suffrage. :rolleyes:
     

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